THOMAS DEKKER’S META RETURN TO HOLLYWOOD IN ‘SWIMMING WITH SHARKS’

BY IRVIN RIVERA

Hollywood veteran multi-hyphenate creative THOMAS DEKKER plays Travis in Roku TV’s “Swimming with Sharks” starring Diane Kruger and Kiernan Shipka. Thomas brilliantly played Travis with ease and finesse. Playing a sharp, troubled character intertwined within the dark, twisted world of the series set in the cutthroat world of a fictional Hollywood studio could go in many directions but Thomas played it fearlessly and well.

Jacket: CHARLES & RON, Pants: ALABAMA BLONDE, Boots: AUDREY O., Necklace & Rings: ONCH

“I really would love to continue to work with people who have balls, you know, people who want to try things.” Dekker loves to push the envelope, and that’s always his way of creating.

Thomas has been acting since he was 5, a craft and a way of life that was deeply embedded in him from the beginning. For Dekker, acting is this innate, instinctual thing that he keeps going back to, no matter what he does in life. Thomas writes, directs, and makes music. But acting will alway be there. “It's like I've never known anything without it.”

On top of it all, Thomas is a punk-rocker creative soul who is just generous with his creativity and time. It was a njoy to collaborate with an artist who is open and absolutely willing to create.

In this exclusive interview we chatted with the star about his acting career so far, his character Travis in “Swimming With Sharks,” his upcoming album "Let's Get Moving" and his music, life lessons, dream projects, the importance of representation, inspirational moments, and what book he would be if he was one.

Hi Thomas! How are you?

Good to see you.

Good to see you! Thank you for the time.

How are you? How have you been?

I'm good. I'm busy. I'm writing a feature for hire at the moment. So busy, but I'm kind of in my own schedule. So that's been nice.

That's great.

Yes!

Let's dive into "Swimming with Sharks."

Okay.

How would you describe the show to people who haven’t seen it yet?

Well, it's a reimagining, sort of an extension of the movie that came out in the 90’s with Kevin Spacey but this is about two women at the center as opposed to two men. And really, I think the show, while it's set in Hollywood, is very much just about the themes of obsession, competition and the desire for power- and the sort of various ways that power can be obtained and what that means for the two women at the center of the story. That's what I take from it.

That's pretty much the core of it. Obsession and power.

Yes.

And I remember when you told me to just watch it- it's easy, it's binge-able. And I did, I watched it in two days.

Oh, my God!

Seriously! And I've been telling everybody just to watch this. I'm obsessed. It's crazy because it's good and it could be over the top sometimes. Because I'm like, oh, man, this is fucking crazy.

Yes. What I like about the show is that it's not quite so -- I think a lot of entertainment has gotten very serious and very educational, which is great. But I think she wanted to make something that was a bit more like a 90’s Erotic thriller or something that was dark, but also fun. And like you said, it can be a bit verging on over the top and you know that’s the kind of the joy of it. I like the kind of punk rock spirit of the whole thing.

Yes, yes, that's what it is. I mean, you can kind of tell also by the intro, and all the elements embedded into it. The music, the montage of the seasons, it's great.

Now in relation to that, being in the entertainment industry for a while, since you were what, six? Is that correct?

Five.

Wow. What's your take on this series in relation to real life?

I stepped away a little bit from acting. I've taken a bit of a step back to work on other things and to kind of return with this is so kind of meta and perfect in my eyes, because it really is about not just the literal landscape of Hollywood, but the emotional landscape of being here and working here and being occasionally consumed by the beast of this town and of kind of this job. And I've certainly seen in my day, plenty of horrors and plenty of darkness. And yes, while my experience is very different from the role I play, the themes of the series I think are very aligned with and I think- also, of course, the showrunner, she's been an actress since she was a teenager and comes to it with this wealth of experience and observation. So, do I think it's an accurate picture of how everything goes. No, but I think thematically there are huge truths in this show.

Absolutely..But again, this is fictional, that's what the audience should remember. It's something that you should enjoy. But there are bits and pieces of truth in there.

Yes, yes.

Now let's talk about your feisty character, Travis. So how would you characterize his character evolution throughout the episodes of the show?

Well, I get a kind of fun arc to play, because where he starts to where he ends is quite different. And the question I had to ask myself was kind of why is he willing to take all this abuse? And why is he so desperate to hold this position? And I think, speaking of the truths and observations and experiences of being here, I think there's a lot of people who start out not from a position of just wanting power or wanting money or wanting success. I think a lot of people start with a genuine legitimate passion for film and for art and for all of it, but they get derailed along the journey. They get sort of twisted as to why they're here and what they're doing. And that was what I decided kind of for Travis- was that he came here really wanting to be a great fucking film producer and then somehow along the way, it's just become that he's got to keep this woman, that he's got to keep Diane Kruger as Joyce, as you know, he's got to be in her palm and that's his motivation. And so, when Kiernan arrives, you know, here's this female for this other female that I, as a gay man, have been trying to hold on to and she's coming in and taking her away from me. So, I think it's a really deep-rooted jealousy. That was what I wanted between Travis and Lou. It's not just a Devil Wears Prada, kind of like this bitch is coming from a job situation. It's more of a like, you are robbing me of the entire identity I built for myself here and so he goes crazy. I think he's a bit of a wrecked man by the end of the season.

What can we expect from Travis in the future?

Oh, my God. I feel like Travis is not done just wanting to really wreck this girl.

He's not?

Yes.

Top: VEGAN TIGER, Pants: MISTER TRIPLE X, Boots: PSKAUFMAN, Jewelry: RAT BETTY

I can tell. I was like, come on, Travis. Let's do it! How was it to play Travis as your first gay role, as coming out as gay? How was that like?

I mean, my whole life, in front or even behind the camera has been transformed by coming out. It allows me so much freedom. And when you're focusing on playing a version of yourself, it makes it even more complicated playing a role on top of it. So, while Travis and I are very different, I definitely felt completely free to just do what the character required. And yes, and also just being able to be myself on the set and with the creative powers that be. It opens a much freer dialogue. And so, it was a thrill. It's a very different thing to play a gay role out as opposed to yes..., the alternative.

What are the challenges and the highs that you experienced throughout this whole experience?

Of the show?

Yes, of the show.

Well, the production was really - I mean, and it's no secret. It went through a fucking journey; it went through multiple networks. COVID, you know, and I have to give full props to Catherine Robertson, the showrunner and show creator who just never lost sight of what this thing was, and she just rolled with every kind of stressful disaster that came our way and she just kept the show as it should be. So, the lows were definitely the waiting and wondering when and where it was going to be released.

But the high I'd say was, the high was just seeing it premiere at SXSW and being there with Diane and Kiernan and the whole cast really, and my husband and seeing it on the big screen, it was just, it just felt really unique. I was like, wow, this is something that I don't see anywhere else at the moment. And it just felt really great. It felt like everyone's long-term hard work had come together as it should have. That was the high, that and Kiernan Shipka because she's just the most delightful person on earth.

Suit: ALABAMA BLONDE, Gloves: ASTA RAZMA, Boots: DR. MARTENS, Necklace: ONCH

What is your proudest moment in your career ever?

My proudest moment? Do you know no one has ever asked me that? Give me one second, I'll give you a good answer.

It sounds a bit cheesy but I think probably on a deep level, my proudest moment has been when I've received messages from young people, particularly young queer people who have found the work I've done as a kind of a door opening for them. And they feel a bit seen and a bit more comfortable to express. And I think a lot of our trouble as a society is that none of us is really expressing as we deeply desire to and we're sort of pressurized by everything to not be- and I think that's when I felt best, I felt the most okay, I'm doing something of more value than just being creative. I'm leaving something behind that might actually positively affect a young person's life. And I know that's a bit of a cheesy answer but that's the truth.

That is a beautiful answer.

Thanks.

It's representation- representation matters. It's like if a young closeted person or someone who's still discovering their identity sees whatever you do, and they say, oh, my God, he's very brave. And when you get those messages, it's something to be really proud of.

Yes.

And it's really inspiring too, you know, when they see you and say, I could be you as well. That's great. How did acting start for you?

So, acting began kind of an accident, I was five years old and was born in Las Vegas. That's where I was living at the time. And then we came out here just for a trip. And I could sing well, from a really early age. So, because both my parents were in music. And so, the very first job I got was singing a jingle for a commercial. And through that, then I got on soap opera, for temporarily, I was filling in for a different child actor who went off to do a movie, I guess if I remember correctly. And then it just kept rolling. And I was the only child and I loved it.

And so, my parents were just kind of like, yes, you want to keep doing this, we'll keep doing it. But I have gone through so many times in my life where I thought I would stop. Where I thought, okay, this is done. And it sort of seems every time I make that decision, something happens that kind of pulls me back into it. And I will admit that I have only recently semi-recently been like, okay, no, no, this is what I do. This is what I am going to commit to and yes, but it started a kind of a happy accident that's just kept going for almost 30 years.

Wow. You said something earlier about something that keeps pulling you right back to it despite the fact that you do other things. You tried to take a break. What is that thing that you say that pulls you back into it?

I think it's a deeply emotional need that I can't really explain logically. The act of embodying someone else is something I think on a really deep, instinctive emotional level I need and I don't know what that is. I probably need to pay a therapist to really get to the bottom of that.

All the other things I do, writing, directing, music, those all kind of live in a different compartment for me, those are all the things that I wake up every day and I've got a plan and I want to really put my energy to but with acting, it's like I've never known anything without it. I've never known life without it. So, I think my emotions have been kind of trained to be figured out oftentimes through the portrayal of the emotions of another. And so yes, it's usually, what pulls me back in is the opportunity to work with someone I really respect or really admire or can really learn from. And I think it's that- it's that experience of collaboration and creating a person, I guess. More so than anything else that comes with the job. If that makes sense.

Coat: GRAYSCALE, Top: MISTER TRIPLE X, Harness: MARTA MILJANIC, Pants: ALABAMA BLONDE, Underwear(worn thru-out): THE VICTOR CLOSET Shoes: DR. MARTENS, Gloves: STYLIST’S OWN

Makes sense. Yes.

What is your dream project?

My dream project… You know, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore. I definitely have a, I suppose you say, unique set of interests in film, television and art. I like things that push the buttons, things that push the envelope, things that are a bit not controversial for controversial sake. But I like things that take risks, right?

And I like to take risks as an actor, what excites me about it is if I see a project, where's like, ooh, that's scary, or that's challenging, or that kind of infringes on my stability or my ego, all those things kind of turn me on and keep me going. So yes, I don't know if I have like, one specific project. But I really would love to continue to work with people who have balls, you know, people who want to try things.

Yes, and I love what you said about fear. If you have that little amount of fear in something you're taking on it. I like that.

Yes. Spark!

Exactly. Now, out of all the roles that you played, is there any specific character or role that resonates with you the most, and why?

It's interesting because he's a real person. But I got to play this kind of legendary figure of Lance Loud. An HBO movie called Cinema Verite when I was 22, I think. And Lance Loud was the first out gay man on television, really, in the 70s on the very first reality show in an American family and he was this total eccentric artist obsessed with Warhol and Candy Darling and the factory in Manhattan and got himself there. And when the show came out, and he was kind of outed to the world, it really weighed on him. And at the same time, I was doing this movie, I was kind of fiercely closeted by my industry, by my team, by everything, and it was a really kind of transformative experience, to be embodying this man who had gone through similar personal issues, and I'm portraying those issues as I'm going through them simultaneously. And that role was both an honor to play this real person and it really resonated with me, even though we're very different in our personality and cadence. I'd say that, and then of course on the flip side, playing John Connor in The Terminator series was because it was just such an iconic thing. I remember at 19 being like, oh my God, I'm playing this character that like everybody has heard of or knows about. So, on another level on a kind of wider spread level, that was great, too. But I'd say playing Lance Loud was a real honor and a good piece of education. As an actor and a person.

Would you say it's more challenging to play a character that has similar experiences to your own personal experiences, as opposed playing a character that is completely different from you?

They both come with their own complications because when I play a role that has more in keeping with myself, then I'm very panicked that I'm pulling too much of myself into it and I'm just kind of being me. But when you are playing a role but I do love to do, I love to change my voice, change my walk, change my mannerisms, change my everything, per character. So while I artistically kind of get off on that, because it's a challenge, it does kind of get exhausting. It's more enjoyable in a short form. But when you're playing something that's so not you for, say a year on theories... Yes, so I guess it's a matter of exhaustion versus anything else.

Okay, now, let's talk about your music.

Oh boy.

Are you creating new music soon? Are you releasing new music soon?

I have my next album, sort of worked out. And I intend to kind of get on that at the end of the year. I released an album last year and had been for a couple of years leading up to that. I've just been making mountains and mountains of music, like just going, going and going. So, taking a step back now, but I have my next album is -- it's the first time I've said it is going to be called "Let's Get Moving". And it's a full-blown dance record.

I'm really excited about it. Because I like anything that makes me move.

I feel bad for you. I blasted my own song choices, throughout the whole shoot.

Coat: ASTA RAZMA, Turtleneck & Leggings(worn under): CHARLES & RON, Corset(worn over): ASTA RAZMA, Skirt(worn over): CHARLES & RON Necklace: PYRRHA, Ring: RAT BETTY, Boots: DR. MARTENS

No, I love it. Seriously, like we're all vibing. We're vibing through it. Thomas, what's like a life lesson that you always carry with you or something that you learned throughout your career that you always carry with you?

Wait, that's a really good one. I have one but I just talked about it. So, I want to talk about a different one. Because I have a couple. So, give me a second. Believe it or not, I did a movie when I was six years old for John Carpenter. It was called Village of the Damned and is kind of a classic 90s cult movie now. And I know that the reason I got cast as this character was because apparently according to the filmmakers, I was so on my own, from all the other kids that were auditioning, and there were a ton of kids. And we were all in the same kind of house doing mix and match auditions. And I was so kind of in my own weird little bubble and away from everybody and that was why I was picked up and apparently why I got hired. And I think throughout my life, you know when you grow up as a child actor, the first thing you learn is how to walk in a room and get everyone to love you. Right? You want to please everybody who you want, come on, like me, I can get this job. You know, you've learned this from a really young age. And that little lesson has always stuck with me because I've always remembered, yes, but see, I got that job because of who I am not because of who I was pretending to be. And that's a really hard thing to hold on to in this town because you're constantly looking at others who are doing what you want to do. So, you think well, maybe if I get more like them or change myself, you know. And at the end of the day, the ultimate lesson of my life that I've kind of come to grasp is no, it's about being authentically you. Honing the translation of who you are to others, perfecting that so that you can reach other people, but it's not about changing yourself in a deep way. So, this little lesson of how I got cast at six years old, has kind of always been in my back pocket.

Coat: ALABAMA BLONDE, Shirt: HOUSE OF DIVINO, Pants: KENNETH BARLIS, Necklace: ONCH, Boots: PSKAUFMAN

It's so nice. Seriously, because it's like you're going inwards instead of outwards with it.

Yes.

Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, final question for you.

If you're a book, what book would you be and why?

Oh, my God.

This is an open question. It could be a made-up book. It could be an existing book; it could be a genre. It could be whatever. No holds barred.

I'm going to say the book, it's a real book. I'm going to say the book that kind of changed my whole perception of everything. It's a book I started reading, highly inappropriate young age I think I was about 12 or 13. And it's called House of Leaves. And it’s a very experimental, intense book and is really a work of art in itself. And when I read that book, it sorts of showed me what was possible. It showed me just how far an experience can go, like how intense the sensation from a piece of literature or a piece of art could be. And the boldness of the writer and the fearlessness of the text, I think has just always been my ultimate turn on. Again, it comes back to the take on what scares you, and what overwhelms you and sort of work your way through it. I guess the thrill junkie in me is represented in that book.

When was the last time you read that book?

Oh, I've read it so many times. Probably want to say maybe four years ago, I looked at it again.

Oh, wow.

A long read, but I've read it multiple times. Yes.

All right, then. I'm going to look it up.

Even if you don't read it, you should look at it. Because it's like, there's huge chunks where the words are made into shapes and it's one word per page. It's a really crazy thing.

Yes, it's wild. It's wild just to have it on your coffee table.